Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/19/1996 01:35 PM Senate CRA
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SENATE COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
February 19, 1996
1:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Torgerson, Chairman
Senator Fred Zharoff
Senator Lyman Hoffman
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chairman
Senator Tim Kelly
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 206
"An Act relating to welfare reform by establishing the Alaska
Family Independence Program; repealing the aid to families with
dependent children and job opportunity and basic skills programs;
relating to an exemption to Alaska Wage and Hour Act for certain
work activities of the Alaska Family Independence Program; relating
to the duty to support children of minor parents; relating to
certain licenses and applications for a license for persons who are
not in substantial compliance with orders, judgments, or payment
schedules for child support; relating to an exemption to the state
procurement code for certain services for the general relief
program and Alaska Family Independence Program; relating to
eligibility for day care benefits administered by the Department of
Community and Regional Affairs; authorizing the Department of
Health and Social Services to operate a public assistance program
consistent with the Alaska Family Independence Program under
federal waivers and providing certain immunity from liability for
activities of that program; amending Alaska Rule of Civil Procedure
90.3; and providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 206 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 1/31/96.
WITNESS REGISTER
Jim Nordlund, Director
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health & Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, AK 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 206
Curtis Lomas
Welfare Reform Program
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health & Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, AK 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 206
Kristen Bomengen, Assistant Attorney General
Human Services Section
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained amendment to SB 206
Randy Black
Alaska Food Coalition
2121 Spar Ave
Anchorage, AK 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions on SB 206
George Hierontmus, Director
Beans Cafe
P.O. Box 100940
Anchorage, AK 99510
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions on SB 206
Edward Thomas, President
Tlingit-Haida Central Council
320 W. Willoughby Ave., #300
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke to welfare reform
Don Shircel, Director of Family Services
Tanana Chiefs Conference
122 1st Ave., Suite 600
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Reviewed Tribal Community Collaboration
Program
Myron Naneng, President
Association of Village Council Presidents
P.O. Box 219
Bethel, AK 99559
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports developing welfare reform plan
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-8, SIDE A
Number 001
SB 206 WELFARE REFORM
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON called the Senate Community & Regional Affairs
Committee meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. He noted Senator Phillips
and Senator Kelly were absent due to their inability to return to
Juneau because of inclement weather.
SENATOR TORGERSON brought SB 206 before the committee, noting that
representatives from the Department of Health & Social Services
were present to respond to questions raised at previous hearings on
the legislation. He said testimony would also be taken concerning
the application of the welfare reform as it pertains to Native
communities or Native organizations, as well as local governments.
Number 031
CURT LOMAS , Division of Public Assistance, Department of Health &
Social Services, directed attention to and explained a chart he had
provided to the committee relating to sections of the bill that
would require waivers in the absence of federal welfare reform,
changes in state law, implementation of state regulations, etc.
Mr. Lomas also reviewed a document which explains the fast-track
approval process and identifies the provisions in SB 206 which fit
the parameters for fast-track approval.
Number 190
SENATOR TORGERSON pointed out the areas the state can implement
without a federal waiver are food coalition grants, pregnancy
prevention grants, non-perm trainee state job classes, Wage/Hour
Act amendment, child support changes, general relief contracted,
expand AHRIC responsibility, day care assistance amendment and
transition regulation authority. He concluded there are not a lot
of changes that can be done without the federal waiver.
JIM NORDLUND , Director, Division of Public Assistance, Department
of Health & Social Services, in response to questions relating to
food banks in the state and the food coalition, directed attention
to a list of soup kitchens and other programs in the state that
provide for nutritional needs of low income Alaskans.
Number 230
RANDY BLACK , representing the Alaska Food Coalition, explained the
coalition is a group of Alaskans that formed to try to make a
difference in the food nutritional issues facing the state. They
believe it is vital for them to be able to more clearly define the
food problems in Alaska and the challenge of food distribution in
the state. The coalition's vision is to strengthen the private
sector through a public/private partnership to make sure food
distribution and the way that food is provided to Alaskans is fair
and equitable. The group will also be developing some
recommendations on how it can further develop this partnership.
Mr. Black also represents the Food Bank Network, which provides
food to approximately 200 agencies that directly distribute the
food to needy persons through regional distribution centers in
Nome, Fairbanks, Juneau, Kenai and Anchorage. Sixty-five of the
200 agencies are located in Anchorage.
Responding to questions from Senator Zharoff, Mr. Black explained
the food distribution process through the various food banks
located in the state.
Number 310
JIM NORDLUND directed attention to an amendment redrafted by the
department, which relates to the powers of municipal governments to
contract part of welfare program services that are envisioned in
the future. The original amendment was more restrictive and the
redraft contains more expansive language.
KRISTEN BOMENGREN , Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
explained the amendment adds to the general powers of all
municipalities. Instead of addressing the boroughs specifically,
it now applies in a broader sense to all municipalities. It is
added to the general powers provision, and, while generally applied
to all municipalities, it is limited specifically to state public
assistance programs. The intent of the amendment is to make it
completely clear the municipalities may exercise that option.
Number 345
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how many programs there are in the state
similar to Beans Cafe in Anchorage and their locations.
GEORGE HIERONTMUS , Director, Beans Cafe, Anchorage, responded that
if he was referring to "soup kitchens," the only ones he is aware
of is the Glory Hole in Juneau, although it gives out food boxes
and Beans Cafe does not, and another one located in Fairbanks.
Number 390
JIM NORDLUND , addressing a question relating to how the state and
Alaska Native organizations can operate comparable family
assistance programs without the state contributing general fund
money to the Alaska Native programs, said the simple answer is they
can't. He said it is impossible to envision them operating
comparable programs without the state's share going to Native
organizations. The block grant the department expects to receive
from the federal government is based on the amount of money
received by the state in FY 94, which paid for the provision of the
program to both Natives and non-Natives in the state. The ideal
way for this to happen is once the money is appropriated to the
department, they would make grants to those nonprofits that would
be serving a Native population instead of a separate appropriation
for Native organizations.
Number 450
EDWARD THOMAS , President, Tlingit-Haida Central Council, said his
interest in welfare reform dates back several years, having served
on the Knowles transition welfare reform team, as well as working
with Senator Stevens on an Alaska-specific amendment which
amplifies the need to go through the regional nonprofits.
Mr. Thomas said needs of many of our Alaska Natives are severe, and
the problems that the people must deal with on a daily basis often
are tied to the absence of a solid economy in the villages. The
dependency on welfare comes partially, if not entirely, from the
absence of opportunities for people to go forward and deal with the
needs of their families. Prior to contact with non-Natives, his
people have historically provided for themselves living off the
land. They are in transition from a subsistence to a cash economy
and there are many pressures on the subsistence lifestyle of his
people.
Mr. Thomas believes an important issue that needs to be addressed
by the state is that of awarding construction contracts in the
villages. The majority of the time, when there are contracts for
water and sewer installations in remote villages, approximately 90
percent of the work force is brought in from the outstide. Once a
project is completed and the work force leaves, people have to be
brought in to maintain those particular facilities because local
people were not trained during the construction phase. He
suggested contracting laws should be reformed as well to provide
that 80 to 90 percent of the people at the local level must be
hired on all projects.
Mr. Thomas explained that the Tlingit-Haida Central Council is a
regional tribe, and they are a little different than some of the
other nonprofits in that they are federally recognized. He pointed
out that in 1987, the council got slightly over $4.4 million in
programs for their region, and, by 1994, they have increased that
up to a little over $9 million. He also pointed out that even
though their programs have grown substantially, their
administrative dollars have remained somewhat flat.
Mr. Thomas related that Alaska Natives made up about 35 percent of
the state's AFDC caseload in 1995, and he suggested that as there
is movement towards some sort of cooperation between the regional
nonprofits or the particular tribes that are capable of doing their
own programs, it is important to keep in mind the numbers of people
they jointly service.
Tlingit-Haida has been writing proposals to try to find some
additional dollars from federal sources and foundations to help
them set up training programs. Also, they have entered into
cooperative agreements amongst the federal agencies that deal with
either the Jobs Programs, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and any
other agency under a 477 consolidation block grant. It is their
hope that by working with state programs, they can also minimize
the duplication while providing the proper assistance to many more
people who are on welfare. He stressed that the state match would
be a necessary component for a successful program.
Mr. Thomas said if no system is set up, his organization is willing
to work with the state on exchanging information on welfare reform.
Tlingit Haida has already set up a compatible data base, and they
could share information on a very direct basis so there is no
duplication of programs.
TAPE 96-8, SIDE B
Number 001
Mr. Thomas pointed out that contract support is a very important
component to contracting or privatizing any of these programs, and
it is no different with Native nonprofits. If they do not collect
adequate contract support, they end up with a shortfall and it then
becomes very difficult to manage the programs. His tribe has three
different contract rates: an on-site rate at 31 percent; an off-
site rate at 17 percent; and a flow-thru rate at 8 percent.
Number 022
SENATOR TORGERSON asked Mr. Thomas if he would elaborate on the
background of the decision that took out working cooperative
agreements with each individual recognized village corporation and
changed it to a regional corporation. Also, he asked if he would
explain the interaction between a regional corporation and the
village corporations.
MR. THOMAS explained there are 12 regions, and it is very different
in each region. Tlingit-Haida's region is about two-thirds the
size of California and they have an arrangement whereby they manage
the Jobs program and the Federal Department of Labor programs under
one contract for the entire region. They then set up cooperative
agreements with other village or community-based management units
that are federally recognized as tribes. However, their BIA
program is a little different; they manage just a little over half
of the program. Larger communities in their area, such as
Ketchikan, Sitka, Kake, etc., go directly to the Bureau of Indian
Affairs and manage their own contracts.
Number 060
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if taking on the welfare reform, as it is
laid out in the legislation, would double Tlingit-Haida's workload.
MR. THOMAS responded that it would probably about double the
workload in one department, but not for the whole organization.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if he would address the relationship
between Natives and non-Natives in administering this program.
MR. THOMAS said they already provide services to Natives and non-
Natives. Programs such as their Village Public Safety Officer
program serve entire communities whose residents are both Natives
and non-Natives. He said they would manage under a single system.
However, if they had some Indian set-aside dollars that had some
restrictions, they would abide by those restrictions, but there is
enough of an experience so that they would not have to set up
entire new systems to deal with that situation.
Number 100
SENATOR HOFFMAN referred to Mr. Thomas' earlier discussion on
reforming contracting laws so that there is more local hire on
projects in remote villages, and he pointed out that has been tried
on several occasions, but it is has always been ruled
unconstitutional. Another problem is that most of the employment
is seasonal. The whole thrust of welfare reform is try to get
people off of welfare and to save dollars at the state and federal
levels, but the problem that he sees for most of the Native
communities is that jobs in rural Alaska are really limited. He
suggested that particularly in rural areas of the state, we have to
look at what jobs are out there and then start training people for
those jobs. However, he doesn't see where there is going to be
massive savings in welfare reform in rural areas of the state
because of the lack of jobs.
MR. THOMAS agreed with Senator Hoffman's comments, and he said the
reason he brought it up is because he feels there needs to be
effort put forth in other legislation. He suggested that
administratively the amount of people coming in from outside could
be suppressed if per diem and overtime were eliminated to outside
contractors and there were incentives for hiring locally.
Number 205
SENATOR ZHAROFF commented there are quite a few success stories
with what the Native corporations are doing, but he is finding more
and more that the frustration begins to develop because of the lack
of opportunity for people to get adequate employment so they can
get off of welfare. He added it is a problem not only in the
Native population. He noted there are people that are in the
second generation of welfare recipiency, and trying to change some
of that thinking is sometimes very difficult.
MR. THOMAS agreed the opportunities for meaningful employment are
very minimal in so many of the communities, which is something that
welfare reform needs to keep in mind. He said creating a work
ethic is just as important as creating the job opportunity and we
need to be innovative in creating good ethics and good standards.
Number 300
DON SHIRCEL , Director of Family Services, Tanana Chiefs Conference
(TCC), testified from Fairbanks. He said he was given the
responsibility of drafting a welfare reform program plan to present
to the TCC leadership for their review, and SB 206 is the first
bill to afford tribes the opportunity to begin to put together more
detailed program plans because it is the only bill to date which
anticipates the key tribal elements of developing federal
legislation.
Over the past year TCC, along with the Alaska Federation of Natives
and Native nonprofits and tribes, has been working closely with the
Congressional delegation and the Clinton Administration to craft
state and federal welfare reform legislation, which will be more
responsive to the local needs of rural Alaskan communities in
working to decrease the dependency created by the current welfare
system.
Mr. Shircel made reference to a draft of the Tribal Community
Collaboration Program (TCC program). He said the goal of the TCC
program is to strengthen individuals, their families and their
communities by increasing their capacity to support each other
through meaningful work and to develop local resources and jobs
focused on decreasing dependency on cash assistance programs. He
read into the record the draft plan which consists of two primary
components: temporary assistance and a Community Savings and
Investment Fund.
TAPE 96-9, SIDE A
Number 120
In his closing comments, Mr. Shircel said the TCC program, or any
like it, needs only to exist until the economies of Alaska's
villages can support enough meaningful jobs in which all able
bodied people can work and earn a living for themselves, and
properly feed, clothe, and shelter their families. Until then, the
Tanana Chiefs Conference, in partnership with the state of Alaska
and the tribal communities of the Interior, intends to work
together in helping people get employment.
Number 135
SENATOR TORGERSON requested that Mr. Shircel forward a copy of the
draft TCC program to the committee so it can become part of the
committee packet on SB 206.
Number 140
MYRON NANENG , President of the Association of Village Council
Presidents (AVCP) and Co-Chairman of the Alaska Federation of
Natives Human Resources Committee, testified from Bethel.
Mr. Naneng said the AFN Human Resources Committee is made up of
representative from each of the 12 regional nonprofits and these
regional nonprofits have had many years of experience administering
state and federal programs, including but not limited to BIA
General Assistance, tribal compacts with federal agencies, and
contracts with both the federal and state governments.
Mr. Naneng made reference to the Alaska Natives Commission report,
which was published in 1994. He requested that the Executive
Summary of the Alaska Natives Commission report be made part of the
committee record on SB 206, and then read into the record portions
of the document.
In his closing remarks, Mr. Naneng said state and federal agencies
should do whatever they can to work closely with rural leaders to
develop welfare reform plans that work. If the state truly wants
to reduce welfare and put rural Alaskans to work then attitudes
must change. The legislature has a tremendous opportunity to
impact the future of welfare in rural Alaska by work with the
people of rural Alaska.
Number 320
SENATOR TORGERSON requested Mr. Naneng forward his testimony to the
committee so it can become part of the committee packet on the
legislation. He then asked if he would briefly explain the
relationship between the regional corporation and the 50 village
corporations that he represents.
MR. NANENG said they work closely with the villages in
administering many of their programs. He pointed out that at the
present time, AVCP operates a general assistance program and they
do not duplicate any of funds that are being received by AFDC
recipients or other public assistance recipients. He also said
there has been discussion that instead of payments being paid
automatically to welfare recipients, as is currently done, there be
a requirement that the recipient would have to turn in some kind of
time sheet or a work plan before receiving the welfare assistance.
SENATOR TORGERSON commented there may be some conflict with federal
law, as well as state law, in requiring work before receiving that
type of benefit.
MR. NANENG also related their contract rates for administering
programs are: on-site rate, 39 percent; off-site rate, 15 percent;
and flow-thru rate, 5.7 percent.
Number 424
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how many people AVCP employs to administer
their programs.
MR. NANENG responded they currently have a total work force of
approximately 125 people, with 42 people located in Bethel and the
rest of located out in the villages.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if they took on administering the welfare
program as authorized in SB 206, what impact would that have on
their work force.
MR. NANENG responded it would keep their people who now work in the
villages busy, and there would be better control of what goes on in
the villages. Also, he believes the cost of the services for the
program will go down over time as people get more experienced in
the work they are doing.
Number 462
SENATOR TORGERSON asked Don Shircel of the Tanana Chiefs Conference
if he was in support of SB 206.
DON SHIRCEL acknowledged that he is, and he believes the tribal
provisions included in SB 206 would afford the Tanana Chiefs and
other Native regional nonprofits throughout the state the vehicle
to do just the kinds of things that Mr. Thomas, Mr. Naneng and
others are trying to do to bring more local control and more local
responsibility. He also related the following rates for
administrative costs in running programs: on-site indirect rate,
34 percent; off-site indirect rate, 14 percent; and pass-thru rate,
5 percent.
Number 490
SENATOR TORGERSON thanked the witnesses for their testimony and
stated it was his intent to draft some amendments to the bill that
would be considered at the next hearing on the legislation.
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 3:32 p.m.
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